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S.Secret
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: Why do people... |
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I love playing with mws... but there's few things...
I don't understand why do people so easily quit/start shouting "noooob" or other stuff.... Haven't u ever heard about something called "miss click".
If some1 dosnt do everything by the book (or by the mws book), it dosnt always mean they are trying to cheat or dosnt have no idea about mtg... human errors are normal in this human life....
I have no idea is this post in right place, so start yelling at me about it, but I didnt find any other place either where do post this...
... and why did I post this? I just think it would good that people would tell how they feel with this kinda behavious (i have seen so many messages like "have some manners", "no noob shoutters", "no quitters" etc... etc.. that I don't think this is something we should ignore, but something we can try to make work...
well. just my 5c...
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Detonator
MWS Developer
Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 2238
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| What can we do for it? |
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Jorbes
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Detonator wrote: | | What can we do for it? |
Make an MWS Host with UserName / Password login system that can do IP bans.
Add rating to those accounts: Let people rate the level of fun it is to play against a certain player.
That way people can select from a range of players who have already shown to others it's fun to play against them. |
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brainwad
MWS Specialist
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 3929
Location: "Girt by Sea" ;)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jorbes wrote: | | Detonator wrote: | | What can we do for it? |
Make an MWS Host with UserName / Password login system that can do IP bans.
Add rating to those accounts: Let people rate the level of fun it is to play against a certain player.
That way people can select from a range of players who have already shown to others it's fun to play against them. |
The first idea is easily avoided a) because people can just make new acocunts; b) because dynamic IPs make banning IPs pointless.
The second idea just sounds terrible... ratings based on user input are just asking for abuse.
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Wallsy
Registered User
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Aus.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Why do people... |
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| S.Secret wrote: | | Haven't u ever heard about something called "miss click". |
Miss Click? Who's she?
| S.Secret wrote: | | If some1 dosnt do everything by the book (or by the mws book), it dosnt always mean they are trying to cheat |
But it does mean they're cheating. The game has rules. If you don't follow those rules, you are cheating.
| Jorbes wrote: | | Add rating to those accounts: Let people rate the level of fun it is to play against a certain player. |
Oh, brilliant idea. Then the rampaging hordes of morons could have it all to themselves and those of us who insist on using phase buttons and understanding how both the game and the program are supposed to work could be banned, as we should be.
Wallsy.
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Jorbes
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| brainwad wrote: | The first idea is easily avoided a) because people can just make new acocunts; b) because dynamic IPs make banning IPs pointless.
The second idea just sounds terrible... ratings based on user input are just asking for abuse. |
True, true and true, but at least it's something...
A lot of people have dynamic IP's, but also a lot (me) dont, or at least one that changes only once every few months, so it might work for a few people you dont want playing on your server.
Another thing would be a Master user.
Create a system where only a few active admins can create login accounts for users. You could give them like a trial account and see how they fit into the communitie, maybe even have people vote on whether or not they can stay after the trial period is over. This happens on (very) private game servers as well and works perfectly (non mtg related, more like shooters, I used to run a few back in the day... a place without camping, bunny'ing etc etc)
As far as the rating system goes, obv. trial users are not allowed to submit a rating for a player and you can add that a player needs X play hours in order to be able to rate other players.... and must have a decent rating himself or a less strict combination of the above
Offcourse, without all of the above the MWS server runs fine and adding this stuff could create instability, but also, if you where to leave the server the way it is used now... you're not really fixing an issue dozens of people complain about.
Just my two cents, do with it what you want, it's free. |
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S.Secret
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people... |
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The only change I want to see is in peoples attitudes, not in the software. No ratings/bannings or nothing. Just open discussion. So, I'm not asking anything from the moderators/upkeep but from us players.
And, this is not just about me. I'm not whining "Oh my god, they don't treat me right!". I can/will/and have been as stupid as any1 else can be... and to the question "what can we do about it", i say "what can WE do about it?", and the answer is, "Talk about it". The more people talk about this kind of things and tell about their feelings... well, I just think its the onlyway to even try to make it all nicer for every1, so that we can enjoy and have fun. I have quitted, I have made some1 quit because I wouldn't let him make something later that he did forgot to do, but I also have let some continue his came even though he didnt pay his pact in upkeep, but did draw a card first...
No1 is perfect, no1 is ought to be, but every1 can try his/her best.
| Wallsy wrote: | | S.Secret wrote: | | If some1 dosnt do everything by the book (or by the mws book), it dosnt always mean they are trying to cheat |
But it does mean they're cheating. The game has rules. If you don't follow those rules, you are cheating. |
Heh... well I know u got my point, just didnt want to show it.
Again u can think about the Miss Click (what a beauty), or forgetting to send those 3 letters (eot) intime or so. I'm not talking about big things, just everything little that can happen every now and then.
An example: T2 game: As I drew my first 7 cards, I noticed, that I have mistakenly putted in 4 wrong cards (they should have been prismatic lenses,but they were prismatic something instead). I told this to my opponent, and told him, that those wrong cards will represent lenses (as, some many people have done against me, or let me do the same thing before if I have mistakenly putted wrong cards in or forgotten to change something... I have almost never asked that we could do so, usually the opponent has told me that we could do like that, sometimes I have said, its my mistake in deckbuilding and I should pay for it, and sometimes I have said thanks and played those cards as those they should have been. So this isnt something I came up, other players have teached me to work like this).
So any way, I told the situation and he said its ok. Then the moment came that I drew the wrong prismatic something (a blue card from mirrodin), I said, "here it is", and paid the mana, putted the card in play and was starting to write a note and again the explanation to my opponent as he started shoutting and quitted before I could make note: "Lens", to the card......
Atleast, I don't think its too much to ask that u listen first what u'r opponent have to say about the "wrong" thing, and quit/don't quit/start yelling/don't start yelling only after that (well, atleast thats what I do, the explanation usually change nothing, and its against the rules, period. But sometimes, there can be a good explanation behind it all, and u can continue having fun.)
And also slow players are not always slow players, maybe their connections are.
All this, I have noticed, has made a situation, that some players (not me, and not many, but I thing even 1 is too much), I almost like afraid when playing in mws. Afraid that if they do a slightest thing in the way their opponent don't want it to be done (and not talking about major rules issues here), their opponent will instantly quit, and no more fun for any1.
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Detonator
MWS Developer
Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 2238
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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S.Secret, talking don't solve problem, need to do some technical procedures.
I read one russian forum where people created topic with player names who don't know rules or disconnected if going to lose, or use Type1 deck for games where type 2 waiting and etc.
It is like public blacklist.
What about personal white/black list in MWSPlay?
Also, some statistic can be gathered about games: how many games played / lost / won / not completed - after finishing game players should accept result (press In/Lose/Draw button). This info can be stored on server and viewed when you choosing opponent for game. |
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Planeswlk
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Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 1700
Location: The Magic Geekery
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Sounds great, Det. Let the players police themselves and allow them to ignore the players they think are bad, based on public game statistics and personal blacklist. The stats also provide a simulated league of champions, the top winners can find worthy opponents to battle easily; however new players are at a disadvantage with a 0/0/0 record if noone wants to play newbies. Just make it foolproof- a win/loss cannot be recorded unless the players actually played a game (not just a turn or 2 then quitting; some reasonable amount of time must tick off plus some gameplay). Also a Not Completed result would need thought on how to submit; either the player who didnt lose connection would click a button, and/or when the game starts a packet goes to the server to indicate a game initiated, if the end result packet doesnt come in at some point then its recorded as Not Completed.
Functionality to allow a game to not count toward stats (also staying off the internet and not try to connect to the server when there isnt a internet connection, IE. LAN games) would be necessary.
An additional flag "League player (0 or 1)", settable by the admin upon request from a league coordinator on behalf of players, would be helpful for members of online Leagues, to help id. those players to each other.
Hmm, lets list the pros/cons of a statistics list of wins/losses/draws/NC:
Pros:
Players with bad connections and sore losers get weeded out as their NC # goes up.
Players get to build a repertoire and feel better playing each other as knowns rather than playing against unknowns.
Players can find other players of similar statistics to play against and would feel challenged.
Newbs can pair up with other newbs and not feel threatened by casting their lot into the unknown vs rampaging tournament players. (Skilled players can help them too if desired).
Cons:
Players with spotty connections or bad luck get weeded out, unfortunately.
As rankings increase the players will subconsciously divide themselves into newbs, casuals, and high-playcount tournament-level mavens. This will cause division in the community of players as the stats become a weapon of ego.
Stat server would require alot of upkeep dealing with the hordes who want the records changed both legitimately (name change, password retrieval, etc) and for disputed games or ego reasons.
Some people will inevitably cheat the system for their own benefit.
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S.Secret
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Why do people... |
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| Wallsy wrote: | | Jorbes wrote: | | Add rating to those accounts: Let people rate the level of fun it is to play against a certain player. |
Oh, brilliant idea. Then the rampaging hordes of morons could have it all to themselves and those of us who insist on using phase buttons and understanding how both the game and the program are supposed to work could be banned, as we should be. |
This is really the thing I also fear the most, because every feature can be abused... And I just don't want to see that we give "those people" more tools to make things "not right" 
I think, the personal list wuold be best, as what have been said here. It wouldnt affect the game in whole, and I cant see away, how any1 could abuse my personal list... (if I understood correctly what u ment with it)
| Planeswlk wrote: | Cons:
Players with spotty connections or bad luck get weeded out, unfortunately.
As rankings increase the players will subconsciously divide themselves into newbs, casuals, and high-playcount tournament-level mavens. This will cause division in the community of players as the stats become a weapon of ego.
Stat server would require alot of upkeep dealing with the hordes who want the records changed both legitimately (name change, password retrieval, etc) and for disputed games or ego reasons.
Some people will inevitably cheat the system for their own benefit. |
Even thou he had listet a really good pros, I think these weight more... But, I'm happy allready... because I was wondering, dos this get any replies at all... and I'm really sorry that I don't have any real solutions to the thing...
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ShadeMistress
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the only problem I find, trying to play with anyone else online that's not a close friend or someone I've played with before, is the whining and yelling... and those poor MtG lifers who do nothing BUT MWS and complain if you aren't an expert at playing every turn as if their life will end at any moment...
I had been on with a player for all of 30 seconds the first time I ever played online, and the guy threw a fit because I was "taking way too long" and I was a "stupid n00b" and started to spam 100/100 "n00b tokens" all over the screen...
I just told him to get a girlfriend (as if) and quit...
That's just childish behavior and I would like to be able to filter these people's IP's for Games and Join requests at a minimum. The game is still a GAME after all. It ought to be fun.
And yeah I have nothing against newbs, I been trying to get my friends to play, since they don't want to spent loads of money on cards. They're all newbs and they're really good, fun people. Why shouldn't they be able to enjoy the game just as much as anyone else.
All these "l33t" players need to chill and get laid or something...
LOL, just my 2 copper shiny things... |
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Link17
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: i agree |
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| hi i am new, i created a game (my first game i believe) stating that i am new, and someone came up named expert and asked me if i am a stupid noob then a @#$%ing stupid noob then said @#$% you noob and disconnected. there is no need for this badmouthing just cuz some of these obssessed people can't find a girl while they waste their lives only playing mws 24/7 in their cold and lonely basement..........please people stop with all of these comments, if you want a fast duel then casually create a game stating what you want. mws is a great program and it doesn't need persecution for being new (which by the way is a dum reason for confrontational actions) new people should be welcomed not treated like garbage. everyone was new at one point.....srry i just needed to let off some steam and i'm glad this post is up. |
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Rat Bastardsen
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people... |
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| Quote: |
| S.Secret wrote: | | If some1 dosnt do everything by the book (or by the mws book), it dosnt always mean they are trying to cheat |
But it does mean they're cheating. The game has rules. If you don't follow those rules, you are cheating.
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Whatever. Perhaps that is technically correct, but it is entirely beside the point. If someone makes a mistake there is a civilized and human way to deal with it - as they say on Sesame Street: com-u-ni-cate! In any game I've played, if both players discuss the issue it usually goes away pretty quickly and we're both happy.
Since we're blowing off steam here, I will point out the ridiculousness of those who feel superior due to being better than someone else at a game - especially a game the playing of which makes us geeks and losers to a large number of people in the world. No one should care what those people think, and we should only laugh at people who shore up their egos with feelings of MTG superiority. The only problem being, still, that it is frustrating to deal with them.
One good solution that doesn't involve the software is league play. That way there is a large pool of people to play with who are known to the group, and therefore have to take some responsibility for their actions. I haven't really checked out Magic-league in detail yet. I think they play pretty much all block. I'd like to see a league that plays many different formats, including some of the more unusual ones, like Tribal Wars.
So who has experience with Magic-league? Who would be interested in forming a more casual-play league?
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Grimfeast
Skilled User
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | as they say on Sesame Street: com-u-ni-cate |
Isn't that supposed to be com-mu-ni-cate ? :p |
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